All TJ graduates have an interesting story. Liat Roth ('17) is no exception. As the daughter of a faculty member, Liat has an interesting "road to TJ." After graduating, she went to UMKC to study dance, where she is currently adapting to a pandemic. Flexible (figuratively and literally), creative, and thoughtful, Liat is another example of an alumna who makes TJ proud.
[00:00:00]
Matthew Troutman: [00:00:31] well, Liat thank you for joining and welcome to the conversation series.
Liat Roth: [00:00:36] I'm so excited to be here .
Matthew Troutman: [00:00:37] Where are we finding you right now?
Liat Roth: [00:00:39] Tonight I'm in my apartment in Kansas city, Missouri, not Kansas city, Kansas. That is an important distinction to me.
Matthew Troutman: [00:00:46] Very important. Yeah. And,
what are you doing there?
Liat Roth: [00:00:51] In my apartment in Kansas city, not much came to city, this weekend or getting ready for our senior capstone [00:01:00] performances, at the MKC conservatory.
Matthew Troutman: [00:01:02] Just to clarify, talk about, your current program, how you got there and what you have coming up tomorrow.
Liat Roth: [00:01:10] So I'm in my final year of studies at the conservatory. And what really drew me to the program here at young, Casey was the dual emphasis and training in both ballet and modern. A lot of college dance programs have, pretty, pretty diverse, you know, set of techniques that they teach. And I was really excited to really dive deep into a technique of ballet and modern, because I think that it'll, you know, it sets me up for any form of dance that I could encounter in my career. And another thing about the program is that it's cool. Dual degree in choreography and performance. So I grew up performing, not so much choreographing. And it's been a real joy, told him those skills throughout my years. So that's the show that we are premiering [00:02:00] tomorrow. All of the seniors choreograph on a cast of underclassmen and, we play professor, you know, like we've been watching our professors do for the last four years. It's an incredible learning opportunity, learning everything that goes into, you know, from the costumes to the lighting design it's things we've never really had to face before. So it's been very exciting to learn all of that.
Matthew Troutman: [00:02:25] What has been the biggest or most surprising challenge? In this process?
Liat Roth: [00:02:30] Well, I think my, my most favorite element of choreography, the four years I've been in college and kind of been developing my voice as a choreographer has been the interaction of human bodies. I've never, I've never really been the person to just make a flashy series of steps. I've. Perhaps been too reliant on how, the interesting ways that bodies interact with each [00:03:00] other emotionally and physically. And, that's rather out the window. Now some dance companies are finding ways for their dancers to touch, by going to various bubbles, using household couples, you know, married couples, that kind of thing. That's not really an option for us. We are under strict guidelines to, stay six feet apart at all times in training and also in choreography. So it's been really, a beautiful challenge. We've all, all of us seniors have pushed ourselves in ways that, you know, two years ago, Could not have even conceived of like many other things in the world today.
Matthew Troutman: [00:03:36] This kind of, background and this experience is just something that I think will, push all of us, right. To, have more skills and improve in the future. So is there something you're taking out of this experience other than just having to train under unusual circumstances?
Liat Roth: [00:03:52] Yeah, I think so. And I think I would answer the question for the world of dance, as opposed to just myself, because [00:04:00] you know, dance is it's is an art form that most people experienced by buying a ticket, coming, sitting in a theater and viewing, and that hasn't been possible for many months. I've attended a few outdoor performances. And obviously that's a very different experience from sitting in front of a procedure, with lights and, you know, a sound system and things like that. So I think it's going to do two things for the world of dance. I think it's going to push us, digitally in a way that we have never been reliant upon before. I'm seeing, and throughout quarantine, I've seen so many, just really innovative ways that companies and even individuals have put together digital performances, whether that is filming in a theater or filming in unexpected places. I think it kind of opens up an exciting new Avenue in that route. And then additionally, I think just in general, [00:05:00] it will pushconnecting to dance outside of just a theater, because it's hard for, you know, $125 ticket to be truly accessible. So I think with outdoor performances and out of the box performances, hopefully it'll kind of push dance more into the zeitgeists in America, the way it is in a lot of other countries.
Matthew Troutman: [00:05:23] Well, all fields are kind of experiencing what do we do now? Sort of thing. And, and the ones that are creative, the, the fields that are creative and innovative during this time will. Hopefully build skills and I include education . We're all learning how to teach remotely and in person, you're doing the same. And so how do we, how do we carry that forward? I think that's, that's something that's important during this time. So let's, let's back up. Let's go back before TJ. And I know you have an interesting origin story when it comes to the school. Talk about how you found TJ, and, and [00:06:00] your experiences coming into.
Liat Roth: [00:06:02] Oh, I could never say that I found teaching. I could take no responsibility. In fact if TJ didn't exist, I don't think I would exist at all. Yeah, because, the way I've heard the story told, my dad had been a teacher for a couple of years and my mom is an alumna. She came to apply for a job. And was touring the campus over winter break. But I believe it was Larry Morgan still, who was the head of school. Cool.
Matthew Troutman: [00:06:31] Okay. Back
Liat Roth: [00:06:32] there. Right. And he had my dad give my moment towards the campus. And they, you know, they didn't get together right away. But as my mom always says, they stuck us in an office together and now we have two kids in a mortgage, so right. Well now they have three kids
Matthew Troutman: [00:06:49] now they have three kids. Yeah. So you're the, the leader of the pack, the first of the Roth children to go through TJ. Was there any [00:07:00] choice? You're the first re-authoring the eldest Rosling. Did you have a choice or were you destined for, to be a TJ student?
Liat Roth: [00:07:08] I definitely felt as if I had a choice, but I didn't feel as if I need as if I needed to make a choice, you know, it was always something I wanted to do. I think the, the part of fate that I twisted was not playing basketball. As everyone predicted, I've seen your books of, Nia to baby and predictions of being the creative CW NBA star clearly did not pan out. I mean personally, perhaps for CELA, she could, she could go down that route, but, yeah, I, I always wanted to be a part of the community because I grew up, you know, watching how rich it was and how cookie it was. And it was a choice, but not a question.
Matthew Troutman: [00:07:55] When you were coming in, was there any hesitation, was there any, [00:08:00] worries that you had about living up to expectations, you know, being a faculty child?
Liat Roth: [00:08:06] No, I think it was more of an arrogance, not as if I knew so many, little places around campus and things about the teachers already. And. You know, I was never lost as a person could be on the first day of school. So I think that was the main emotion I brought into starting. TJ was, a bit of a sense of already owning the place.
Matthew Troutman: [00:08:32] Just to put this in perspective, I believe your first day was my first day, at this your first day as a student was my first day as a teacher. And, and yet both of us had very different, feelings. I think on that day where I was, I was, if I remember correctly, it was feeling a lot more nervous and, lost, even though there was plenty of training and, and, you know, people working through the first time you're on [00:09:00] duty, here's what you need to worry about. But I, you know, coming in and feeling a lot more. Uneasy. And, and also just, I think we both know that the students are amazing and, really challenged me, as a, as a professional made me a better teacher. So, so it's because of students, students like you, that, that I think, I had to push myself beyond what I thought I could do. Just like, I hope we push students to go beyond what they can do. Talk a little bit, I mean, you come to TJ, and what is your experience like? How did it compare to expectations before you started? What are some formative moments that, that stick out to you when you think back
Liat Roth: [00:09:38] Well, at the very beginning of my TJ experiences, it's kind of difficult to think back that far, but, I'd experienced TJ after school, every day for years. So it was very strange to be sitting in the desks in a real class, and not just my sister and I pretending after the classrooms were empty at the end of the [00:10:00] day, it was kind of a wake up call like, Oh, now I'm participating in this form of education. Now I know what O R stands for. And I have to do it, return it in every morning.
Matthew Troutman: [00:10:12] Right.
Liat Roth: [00:10:13] I mean, it's like for any student, I think the academic rigor is definitely something that kind of is like a shock of cold water at the beginning. You're like, wow, this is a lot of words to read every night. But that's, you, you look up to the students in the older grades and they're reading those words every night. So you kind of take a deep breath and you say, okay, I guess I can do it too.
Matthew Troutman: [00:10:38] You would have had a couple of unique experiences, one taking a class with your, your parents. And then also I'm sure, just knowing some faculty members in a different way before having them as a, as a teacher. Is there anything that stands out in that?
Liat Roth: [00:10:55] I always got a lot of questions for people about, [00:11:00] having my parents does teachers and I really always enjoyed it, but the biggest hurdle was figuring out what to call them. I think, dad, I don't know. I don't think I ever really got the hang of that. I fluctuated back and forth. Depending on my mood. But, I think the hardest part of having my parents as my teachers was hearing other students. Complain about them as they would complain about any teacher, as I would complain about any teacher, right. Feeling like, do I join in and rag on them or do I say, Hey man, that's my mom. You know? So I think that was the biggest, the biggest struggle of having them as teachers.
Matthew Troutman: [00:11:40] That's, that's understandable. So talk to me about some of the formative experiences. Is there, are there any moments that stand out, academically, socially, feelings that it, that it felt like to be a student at TJ?
Liat Roth: [00:11:54] Well, I think another thing that got my growing up at [00:12:00] TJ affected as a TJ student was. All the, all the, you know, TJ you'd meet rites of passage, you know, those experiences that you have to sit through. Oh, so many years. And then all of a sudden you find yourself caught up in them. Who could talk about formative TJ experiences without mentioning the eighth grade play? I think I would get to merits if I neglected to do so, but, there was definitely a. And emotional, connection to all of the experiences like that. The plays, getting demerits the one time I was on doghouse one time,
Matthew Troutman: [00:12:43] do they get there?
Liat Roth: [00:12:45] I borrowed my dad's pencil. He said, I would get, you know, X amount of demerits if I didn't give it back. And I forgot to give it back, but you know what. He was the one who had to drive me to campus on a [00:13:00] Saturday morning. So how did that work out for him?
Matthew Troutman: [00:13:03] Doghouse is kind of one of those things that it's it's as bad or as good as you want it to be depending on your attitude.
Liat Roth: [00:13:10] Definitely.
Matthew Troutman: [00:13:11] When I was, that the duty teacher during the doghouse shifts. And I don't have one scheduled this year, unfortunately, but, I would go in with a aggressive enthusiasm, for completing the task, which I think for the people that don't want to be there just adds to the misery. But for the people who don't mind being there, it might maybe lighten the load a little bit.
Liat Roth: [00:13:33] Can definitely picture you marching into the day, like to ground with students waiting,
Matthew Troutman: [00:13:39] I took the entire list from every. Doghouse teacher, famous doghouse teacher. So Mrs. Roth, DJ, an RA Ms. Cunningham, and I added all the lists that they gave me together to produce the super list. And that was what we went in with saying, however long, this will take, that's what we're going to do today.
[00:14:00] Liat Roth: [00:14:00] Wow.
Matthew Troutman: [00:14:01] And we accomplished all of those items and started to reorganize the entire library. You missed out it just, if you would have borrowed more pencils.
Liat Roth: [00:14:11] Well, let's just remember that the Mrs. Ralph list, you know, I experienced every day of the week, not just on mornings that I missed
Matthew Troutman: [00:14:19] to behaved. That's true. You had unique class at, and I can kind of pick on this, a little bit more, cause I taught a number of your classmates. Your class was fairly unique in that you were. Very close knit. Very tight, as a group together. Looking out for each other, exams were always a strange experience where you would take over a room and that would be your den for the, for the times before exams. How did that come about?
Liat Roth: [00:14:47] An obvious answer to that would be, you go through all six years to PJ together and you solidify. But it's interesting because my class didn't have that many, that many people who are there from [00:15:00] seventh through 12th grade. So perhaps the fact that we, you know, we who were there the whole time, we're consistently welcoming new people, into the community. We were constantly practicing, bringing people together and creating fun experiences and slacking off together. So I think that's probably what, created the environment of our class,
Matthew Troutman: [00:15:26] you had. This background, this community, and somehow with all of that kept up a career on the side of continuing your dance. What was that balance like?
Liat Roth: [00:15:40] It was caffeinated. It was a challenge. You, I just, I think back to those days now, like, The past four years of college, I come home every day and I'm exhausted from my classes and my rehearsals. And, I get to go to [00:16:00] bed. But when I was at TJ, I would come home exhausted from classes and rehearsals, and then I would stay up a few more hours, you know, doing my assignments and reading. I remember. During the winter one night, I was like, she thinks I'm doing my nails for an upcoming performance that I had. And, I was like reading the brothers K. While I stepped my hand out of the bathroom window, so it would dry in the wind and I was like flipping pages and I was like, try not to ruin my nails and just a lot of multitask.
Matthew Troutman: [00:16:37] If I think of a traditional TJ. Career would be to, to go, and consider what major you are going to do in college. Maybe, you know, maybe you don't know, take a couple of years and try and find the best fit for, for schools you knew, or maybe this is a question. Did you know that you wanted to pursue dance for sure. Going into college?
[00:17:00] Liat Roth: [00:16:59] Yeah, definitely. In fact, I wasn't too keen on college at all. A lot of dancers spend the, the few years after high school going to auditions and doing, paid training programs under various companies. I'm sure you can understand why my parents weren't too keen on that idea. Obviously, education is very important to them and looking back now, extremely grateful for the opportunity to go to college. And for the experiences that I've had at college, I don't think I would be the person dancer or artists that I am today without the experience. I didn't know which college I wanted to go to. But I definitely always knew throughout my time at TFA, that I wanted to. Pursue dance as a career.
Matthew Troutman: [00:17:54] How did the TJ background, socially, academically, how did that prepare you for, [00:18:00] for your college
Liat Roth: [00:18:00] career? Well, I think to be a TJ student and especially to be a TJ student with a lot of extracurriculars going on, just the type of TJ student, I was, you have to be hyper organized. And I think that the arts are very welcoming to people who are very flexible, but I think that you can, you can at least work in a more streamlined way towards success. If you have lots of practice organizing your life and organizing your priorities and constantly focusing on being prepared for the next day, which are. All things that I, I learned and I learned hard at teaching.
Matthew Troutman: [00:18:46] Right. And what's the next step for you? What comes after this? You know,
Liat Roth: [00:18:53] last January I could have told you, and now that we're in November, I'm not quite as [00:19:00] sure. You know, many industries have changed a lot because of COVID, but man has the dance industry changed? In normal years, what my fellow young KC graduates tend to do is they all pile in a car together in the spring and they go on a big road trip and go to all these auditions, and hope to get an offer somewhere, an apprenticeship somewhere. But I'm not sure. I mean a how safe that would be this year, no matter what companies are offering, but many companies have been hit really hard, by the world we're living in and aren't going to have many spots open for the next few years, you know, which gets me all the more grateful that the field of study that I've been pursuing for the past four years, isn't reliant on somebody telling me. Telling me to do these steps and dance them. Well, [00:20:00] it's also been teaching me how to tell that to another person and how to create my own. I think that I can look at this time and this time of uncertainty, uncertainty as an opportunity to develop that side of my craft and find places where I can keep growing as an artist instead of stuck by. The landscape that I see before me. Yeah.
Matthew Troutman: [00:20:25] That's incredibly optimistic and I think necessary right now. I think, people who create opportunities for themselves are gonna find a way to emerge from this, stronger than they went into it. Where does that come from for you?
Liat Roth: [00:20:39] I think there's no point in pursuing the pessimistic thoughts that naturally flare up because, you can explain this more eloquently than I can, but we're all in a large rock. That's just hurtling through space, and we're all gonna dissolve one day. So what's your, the point in wasting your time [00:21:00] being scared and being uncertain when you're scared of failure, but wasting your time being scared is just going to one step closer to that failure. I think, you know?
Matthew Troutman: [00:21:12] Yeah. That's it, that's a good point. So I want to, go a different route. You're you're in this place where you are now kind of looking forward to what the next step is for you. And I think, also in a place where you can look back and, and think about your path to get to where you are now. If you were to talk to a current. Sophomore, somebody who's 10th grade at TJ. What would you say to them? What would you provide as advice?
Liat Roth: [00:21:41] You know, I was thinking about all my TJ memories when I knew that we were going to talk and I was having a hard time. Recollecting so many things and it's like, I'm still in my youth. And I can't remember my youth what's what's up with that. So I definitely [00:22:00] wish that I had found more ways of documenting my memories, writing them down. We have video cameras at our fingertips. So I would tell a current sophomore too. Document as many memories as you can, because there'll be some joyful to look back on because the TJ community, I think is a very joyful one. And then the second thing I would say is enjoy that special community while you're in it every day. I think the beautiful thing about TJ is that you don't many people. I feel. Don't just turn their backs and walk away. Once you're handed your diploma and your handshake, I think it's, it's a, it's a part of a lot of alumni identity. I think I'm in a point of pride, so it's not as if you really leave the community ever. But I do think that being surrounded by people every day who are [00:23:00] weird and Quirky and passionate about learning is something that I definitely missed when I went to college. Albeit I went into a very different kind of community, that was oriented around a lot of different principles, but I missed being surrounded by people who are constantly asking questions and challenging one another academically, emotionally and socially. And the way that happens, I think only at TJ, on dingy sofas, surrounded by old books ?
Matthew Troutman: [00:23:35] I think that's, that's really important and you know what, you know, we're in, I think this is interview eight or so, and there is a sense of. Well, recognizing that the community is special. And I don't know if this will happen with you, but, with people who have gone out and done professional, work and created companies, creative businesses there, I do [00:24:00] hear a theme that they try and recreate, whether they are explicit or not, they try and recreate an environment that's similar to TJ.
Liat Roth: [00:24:07] Yeah. I wonder for how many people, that's a conscious choice and how many people know subconsciously that that's the best kind of community to create. And therefore just ended up seeking out those people without even giving it a second thought. That's really interesting. Yeah.
Matthew Troutman: [00:24:24] And we also hear just as a, another anecdote that kind of fits with what you've been saying, at our TJ reviews, which, mr. Roth puts on, tuesdays, that when somebody new joins. At the end of the conversation, usually there's a reflection, a comment about reflecting on that and saying, Oh, I've missed the conversation with the TJ group. And I don't know what that is exactly. Cause I, I feel, I will be honest. I feel as an outsider to that, to some extent, I can get it when I see it, but I don't quite know how that comes about. And that's always [00:25:00] interesting to.
Liat Roth: [00:25:02] I don't think anybody else is conscious of any element either. Just the people that TJ draws in or seeks out. If you're a person who enjoys asking and answering and having questions answered. There's no reason you're any different from anybody else,
Matthew Troutman: [00:25:19] right? So I want to switch gears and I'm going to ask some rapid fire questions. What is your favorite TJ meal
Liat Roth: [00:25:27] or cookie break without a doubt,
Matthew Troutman: [00:25:32] any of them, even when it's not cookies,
Liat Roth: [00:25:35] when it's not, cookies is a hard pill to swallow. I feel so incredibly pretentious when I bring up the break. Like the peers I had outside of TJ in high school. And now they're like, they fed you cookies three times a day. Once I perform, I was like, I don't know. It was really hard when it was rice Krispie treats. Like not, we were lucky to have it so lucky to have it.
[00:26:00] Matthew Troutman: [00:25:59] It's so interesting. Yeah. Cause I mean you, now, we do here cause it's, we can't do breaks in the same way. We do hear about that as missing that experience.
Liat Roth: [00:26:11] Okay. Wait. What's happening now? Well,
Matthew Troutman: [00:26:14] if you think about food service, not really just being, you can't leave things open for people to grab because that potentially creates a, contact issue. We have to distribute it. So cookies are now limited to once, maybe twice a day during meals.
Is there a memorable teacher that you had when you were a student?
Liat Roth: [00:26:36] You know what I have to say? Yes. And I have to say, I have anecdotal evidence to prove that it was Mr. Pesach, because the other day it was like one o'clock in the morning. And I saw some graphic on some news website and the graph is completely misleading. Okay. And I was like, [00:27:00] I did not scraped by, in AP statistics to not point this out to my AP statistics teacher. So I screenshotted it and I explained what was wrong with it and how I would fix it. And, he replied the next morning saying that she was glad that I retained the information from his course. What he taught me. It was memorable because I remembered it. But I think it's also a Testament to how lucky I feel to have a relationship with him that has lasted since graduation and. Something, I feel comfortable enough texting him a little bit about,
Matthew Troutman: [00:27:37] I'm glad to hear that he didn't respond at one in the morning. But I'm also glad to hear that you felt comfortable to reach out. That would be amazing. Every once in a while I'll get a space story sent to me, just to have you read this and yeah. Full disclosure usually it's no, but I'll quickly read it and try and summarize what happened, but yeah, that's amazing that, and it, you probably know this, [00:28:00] but just how much that means to, to teachers, to Mr. Pesach.
Liat Roth: [00:28:03] I bet. Although, I mean, in the moment, all I was. All it was filled with was a sense of urgency about how wrong this was.
Matthew Troutman: [00:28:13] Okay. Is there, is there another person, could be staff member? You mentioned Abby, another student that looking back now maybe had a bigger impact than you thought at the time.
Liat Roth: [00:28:26] I mean, my relationship with Abby. I don't think, I don't think her impact on me was bigger than I thought at the time. I think at the time I was like, I knew how big it was. And I'm just thankful. I'm thankful for how unstructured, tJ afternoon can be because I don't think at any other school, if I were going from this double period to this study hall in the library, I would have [00:29:00] learned half as many things about life and the world. As I learned standing at the edge of the kitchen door with Abby. She grew up in a different way for me. We all have different life experiences. And hearing about hers as a woman in this world, just really shaped my outlook and shaped, you know, the kind of person that I wanted to be. That's
Matthew Troutman: [00:29:24] awesome. Is there anybody looking back now that you'd like to apologize to
Liat Roth: [00:29:30] be my parents? Because you don't know that the strife in the Roth household during summer or season when, I mean, and I've passed it onto Selah too, when I don't know. We just, we don't do it. And then we get in trouble. We're expecting to get in trouble and paint the soccer fields and we're like, [00:30:00] you know,
Matthew Troutman: [00:30:01] just build it in.
Liat Roth: [00:30:02] They would always just get so mad about, you know, the disrespect and I understand it now. So. Mom dad. I mean, Mr. Roth, Mrs. Rock and deeply. Sorry.
Matthew Troutman: [00:30:17] Do you have a favorite book from the TJ curriculum?
Liat Roth: [00:30:21] I think the book I enjoyed reading the most was probably the picture of Dorian gray. I read that in ninth grade and it was with, russell, miss Jessel. I really enjoyed that. That things of that class, in general, thinking about,monsters versus heroes, which I think is a really interesting subject to keep in mind throughout the rest of the TJ curriculum, even when it doesn't explicitly deal with the supernatural, but I just enjoyed, I enjoyed the way it affected me as an artist. In terms of dealing with [00:31:00] imagery and creating a compelling story.
Matthew Troutman: [00:31:03] Is there a book you've read recently that you wanted to recommend pass on? Yes.
Liat Roth: [00:31:08] Yeah. And a book that all TJ graduates will devour it's Searcy by Madeline Miller. It is pulled from the perspective of. Searcy, Jesse is on his journey home and Madeline Miller. She it's her second book. Her first is called a song of Achilles. And I haven't read it yet, but I just absolutely would not put this book down. She has a, obviously she has a background in classics and it, her, no, I think all the, everybody who studied Greek and Latin at TJ kind of feels like they're. Part of a secret club, right? Yeah. This feels like another person who, who gets the club, you know, she's in another chapter of the club and [00:32:00] it's a really great read.
Matthew Troutman: [00:32:01] She should have been a TJ student. Maybe
Liat Roth: [00:32:04] I should tell her it could have been.
Matthew Troutman: [00:32:05] What's the best dorm and you get one word to explain why.
Liat Roth: [00:32:12] Gables girl power.
Matthew Troutman: [00:32:15] Got it. Is that
Liat Roth: [00:32:16] hyphenated? That's definitely hyphenated.
Matthew Troutman: [00:32:19] And any other TJ person you haven't mentioned that you wanted to shout out tag say hello.
Liat Roth: [00:32:27] I mean, it's gotta be so raw. I folly to say. You know, you're so close, but look at me now you'll never really escape,
Matthew Troutman: [00:32:38] encouragement or not. I'm not sure. So Celeron is a current senior. She has finished with her college applications at the time of this recording, which is good. One final question for you. How do you currently live the mission of TJ by lifting up the world with beauty and intellect?
Liat Roth: [00:32:59] Now [00:33:00] that my main focus is in life or dancing, choreographing and creating visual art, I'm leaning pretty heavy on the beauty side of beauty and collect. As much of art is concerned with beauty. But I think that the thing that connects me or that, that my TJ education supports is, the intellect side of beauty and intellect. We might look at them as two separate things lifting up the world with beauty and lifting up the world with intellect and intro intellect. Are intertwined. It creates the richest experience either way. So I think that my TJ education, which is an education that so deeply encouraged me to ask questions and crave to have those questions answered, has really, created a sense of urgency and all the art making that I experienced, do ask and answer questions and To question the value of [00:34:00] UTI, and to maybe fight with it and wrestle with it a little bit, because I think that I hope that at the end of the day, that's what creates meaningful, work in the arts, which is something I definitely hope to create.
Matthew Troutman: [00:34:16] It's a lovely place to end. Thank you for your time.
Liat Roth: [00:34:21] Thank you.
[00:35:00]
And just to clarify you as a faculty member, Physically hand out a cookie to a student, the,
Matthew Troutman: [00:35:07] the kitchen staff does.
Liat Roth: [00:35:08] Yep. Okay. See, this is how we should have been doing it all along because the cookie hoarding was really out of control.