Hall, a graduate of TJ from the 60s, has had an interesting career after graduation. An alumnus and former board member, he has stayed connected to TJ for decades. Hall is a great example of someone who impacted his local community, and has continued to live the mission of lifting up the world with beauty and intellect.
Matthew Troutman (00:00):
Thomas Jefferson school or TJ in St. Louis, Missouri is a unique place, a boarding and day school with a small community of students from all over the world. Our mission asks us as educators to provide the strongest possible academic background. Our mission also asks our students to desire to lift up the world with beauty and intellect. Our graduates go on to wonderful careers after TJ and this series intends to capture the stories of our alumni. In this episode, we'll speak with hall. Mcadams hall is a graduate from the sixties. And after going to TJ, he eventually found his way to law school at the university of Arkansas. After that he had a career in banking where he and his family saved a community bank, brought it back from the brink and made it successful as a important part of the community. In little rock, Arkansas Hollis had some time to reflect and think about his time at TJ and how it's impacted his career. I think this conversation will be a really interesting one, well hall. It's really nice to be able to find some time to talk. Where are we finding you today?
Hall McAdams (01:17):
I am at my home, my home office and in Dallas, Texas. I am originally from Arkansas. Grew up in Arkansas spent my entire life until I was 60 and Arkansas, and then moved to Dallas.
Matthew Troutman (01:36):
It's been a while since, since you've been at TJ, if we could kind of rewind to the beginning, I'm kind of curious, how did you find TJ and how did you learn about, about the school
Hall McAdams (01:48):
Again, I'm from I'm, I'm from a small town in Northeast. Arkansas was born in 1946, I guess when I reached about age 14, that magic age, when my father and Robin McCoy used to say, there's, there's a glimmer possible intellect. Well, I agreed at that stage and I was ready to leave home. I just wanted to go anywhere. And my father knew a fellow whose son had gone to TJ named fare back in the fifties. And the way he found out about it was through a a contact at Princeton. So as I say, my father was fully on board with me leaving. He thought that was a great idea. He had done the same thing as a young man. So we looked about, and TJ was mentioned very favorably, but two or three contexts. And so that's, that's how we found out about it is basically through a, a local businessman whose son had gone to TJ. And we've had
Matthew Troutman (03:00):
Over the years, a number of a number of students who have come through from Jonesborough even recently, one of our recent grads just about five, six years ago was from Jonesborough as well. And she ended up being a really great student. I got to teach her in, in math. But she was also on our soccer team. And is currently still the record holder for the most goals in a career?
Hall McAdams (03:28):
Well, of course, you know, we are peace or just bread that white man. Okay.
Matthew Troutman (03:35):
Overall excellence, Xcel. So you make it to TJ. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience there, academics, social anything that stands out
Hall McAdams (03:47):
My background was in the small town in Arkansas and I w I was, I was not a star pupil. I was okay. There were a few subjects where I, I was a pretty good, but as I say, I just wanted to leave town. And I, I mean, probably if I've been of military age, that would have worked as you know, I don't mean to be diminishing DJ, but I just was ready to spread my wings at the age of 15 and do something get out of Jonesborough. Not that I dislike it, it, it was a wonderful place to grow up and so on, but I was ready to leave. And so I, when I went to TJ, it was, it was perfect in that it was completely other from any experience at a small, and at that time it was all boys.
Hall McAdams (04:45):
There were only there were four classes and their own when I got there, I think they were maybe at their name, dear, as far as enrollment, I think it was 36 boys were in the school. But it was, so it was all male, which was also very different from the normal public school experience across probably America in general, at least at that time. And so, and it had a very, to me, very Mr. Chips atmosphere to it English boarding school or what I imagined that would be, you know, I'm a kid, I don't know, but that it was just a perfect place. And to me, I, I kept described it sometimes is it would be like and it was hard. I knew that I was in for a very tough academic endeavor and it was so in that regard, it was just perfect because again, it was, it was a complete change of atmosphere, both academically and just physically being in a new city.
Hall McAdams (05:59):
I did make honors my first year but I was not scholarly. I was not a star pupil. But I, you know, without us C students, there would be no foil for the AA students, whether, you know, somebody has to be mediocre, but, but I absolutely loved it. It teaches you, but it was perfect for me. You know, I've often thought about it a little episode that I had with Robin McCoy in my junior year that, you know, effort working hard. That's a good thing, but that's not the goal of mine. Output what you actually accomplish is, is what counts and the, and, and, you know, that's a nice kind of life lesson. You know, I, I can, I can do more pushups and work out harder than anybody imaginable, and I'm not going to be Tom Brady, all of them that may not be a good analogy at this point in his career, but you get, you, you get my point, is it hard work alone does not get it.
Hall McAdams (07:19):
You have to accomplish something. And that's, that's not whenever sometimes that view of life is a challenge when I look at the students now, and again, this is kind of it's it's from reading the newsletters from talking to you and others at TJ over the years, the quality of the students is incredible. I mean, I would, I would never have made it on the team with the standards that you have today. So again, in retrospect, I feel very lucky just as far as the timing, my age, when I was able to get into TJ. Cause I'm pretty sure if I, at the, at my age of 15, if the standards van were what they are now they would have suggested I go elsewhere. So I'm, I'm as I say, I'm just knocked out, not the quality of the students. It's it's kind of frightening
Matthew Troutman (08:36):
As a teacher. I can say that it made me a better professional working with such high quality students. They they, they don't let you come in on an off day or have an off day, right. You really have to bring your, your a game every single day. And that just makes you, it makes you a better, it makes you a better student and peer, I think when there's that expectation that the classroom experiences so high everybody is elevated there. We talked a lot about the academics. Is there anything that stands out about the social experience, you know, your classmates, your roommates any kind of stories or, or things that stand out on in that respect?
Hall McAdams (09:20):
Well, I, I noticed in here suggested you know, topics for commentary, one of them was, did I have any funny stories? And, and it's interesting, I don't which is odd because I was, I will say I, I was noted among the faculty as the guy who always was quick with a joke and had a good sense of humor. So there was always a lot of laughter and joy in that way, but I, I really can't think of a, a particularly funny story, as I say, it was, it was only 36 students then so quick, and it was all boarding. So clearly you became very close to all of the students and they're your buddies. And my best friends still that I met at TJ is still a best friend, my roommate and I were room roomies at TJ all three years. And then when we went to college, we were roommates the first year of college. So we were, as his mother wants, observed when I was visiting his home during Christmas break wives. And we came down after a night of revelry and were evidently grousing at one another, and his mother turned to us and said, you know, YouTube guys remind me of an old married couple. And then we still laugh about that because we were very close and remain. So, so that, that was unusual.
Matthew Troutman (10:58):
You know, this, this kind of is on that social aspect, but one of the reasons, at least in the written work from, from Charles marrow, Robin McCoy, Graham spring, one of the things that they liked about St Louis was the ability to go to the theater to the, to use some of the, the local amenities that are in St. Louis as a student. Do you remember going out much to to the, to the zoo, to the museums, to the theater,
Hall McAdams (11:28):
Back to my background, small town, Arkansas. And remember, this is in the late fifties when I, this was in the fifties when I grew up, you know, in grade school, years forward was in a small town. So I go to St. Louis and in a, in a calm, our standard event was for the students to be taken to operas and symphonies and stuff, which I never been to. I'd never been to an opera in my life.
Matthew Troutman (11:59):
Was your first first impression of seeing an opera live
Hall McAdams (12:02):
Well, now I will say my first impression of one that I saw in St. Louis, but I had a preconception about opera as being this, you know, a little bit too adult, you know, and, and I will say that that, that first offer probably fulfilled that preconception. I had I mean, I enjoyed it and it was something new. But as an aside on that talking of opera, I still remember Matt Robin would, would kick out you know, eight or 10 students every summer to go to Florence, Italy. And we would stay in Florence which in virtual was a wonderful idea because as, as Robin always said, you know, this, the, the, the old American plan that so many, like my sisters did when they were in high school, where you, you go with a group and, and it's you know, a new city every day.
Hall McAdams (13:16):
And you have, when you wake up in the morning, you had to pull out your calendar to remind your several where you are. This was an in his view is that is completely wrong-headed. And I fully agree with him. So we would go to Florence and spend two to three weeks in Florence. And my roommate, and I got to know some of the locals. I had a girlfriend there who's, she was the daughter of the fellow who ran the, the pen Sione mistake. But anyway, so through her, we got to know a lot of local Italian high school students, and we would hang out with them. Well, we went to an opera there one evening, that was our, you know, assignment. And I thought, Oh boy, this is, you know, I'd been, I'd much rather be with these high school kids and, you know, but I thought, okay, so I go to this thing, man.
Hall McAdams (14:14):
And I forgotten what it doesn't mean. It doesn't really matter what the APO was, because it was like going to a Willie Nelson concert or pick, you know, pick your hot pop star from, I mean, the Italians, if someone sustained a, a high note with, particularly with particular acumen, the crowd would go nuts, be throwing roses on the, yeah. I mean, as I say, it was completely different from this atmosphere of this very uptight view that I have had before and have since experience, but the Italians you know, again, you might've say typical of math, preconception Italians, they, if they just made it a lot of fun.
Matthew Troutman (15:08):
So going from, from TJ, so you went from, went from Jonesborough to, to TJ and had had your high school experience at TJ. What, what happened next? What came next? And how did, how did TJ set you up for that next step? And then kind of let's, let's go from there and talk about what's what's happened post TJ.
Hall McAdams (15:32):
It's hard to, I mean, I don't know how it's done now, but basically Robin, who would, by that time, by the time you graduated, he knew you will know your strengths, weaknesses, personalities on so forth. And he would pick out what he thought was the college you need to go to. And so Robin had chosen Johns Hopkins for me, and a lot of jury days. And you saw them, well, my roommate, he had chosen this new school and Sarasota, Florida called NewCo. So we get back from our meeting with Robin, where he had told each of us where we're going to go to school. And you know, we through our brochures, our college brochures on our beds and we're, you know, talking to them and I looked over at my friend's bed and, and there are these brochures of beach. Sunshine said, Craig work, where does this?
Hall McAdams (16:34):
So one of these is it's a new school then for Robin thinks that would fit in well. And I said, that's where I want to go. I said, I said, you know, that's what I want is a little beach and sunshine. So, so anyway, so that's how I ended up going to new college in Sarasota, Florida. It had just started the year before that it started in 64 and I graduated from TJ in 65. And so I went to a school in Sarasota and, and that was also a wonderful experience. It was, as the difference in going from Jonesborough to TJ was it was the same degree of difference in going from TJ to a new college in that number one, there were no rules, zero. You had no quit, no a tests. They ran it on the English system was this new college was named after new college Oxford. And that, that was their structure was to structure it as a British university. So there are no, no, you know, and if you didn't go to class, who cares now, nobody's taking RO I mean, everything, just almost every precept it, TJ turn it on its head and that's what you get. And that was a liberating experience. It was so liberating that academically as a professor man there said, he said, you know, you're not, you're not really a college dropout macadam here at college drop in.
Matthew Troutman (18:29):
So another another major change, right. Going from Jonesborough to TJ and TJ at a new college
Hall McAdams (18:37):
Exactly what came after. So after new college, I ended up going to the university of Arkansas and went to, ended up going to law school at the university of Arkansas. I did have a little hiatus working for the government when I was drafted during the Vietnam. My father who had been I, who was a lawyer in this small town hometown he changed professions and became a banker. He, he bought controlling interest of a bank that after law school, depending on which way the winds were blowing, if I didn't practice law, I would go into the family business. I had two older brothers in law who were in the banking business, and we were offered a chance to purchase what hadn't been the largest bank in the state. So long as you were to start to get through law school. And I go down to work at this bank and little rock that we had just recently bought. And so I never practiced law, but as I always tell my law school buddies, I said, I supported all of you guys, because if we were, we were constantly w we use legal services in a big way.
Matthew Troutman (20:08):
I w I would imagine that that would be very big for the city of little rock, right? Well,
Hall McAdams (20:13):
Well, we did, we, we found out that they were just so pleased that somebody stepped up and bought it because he said, literally, he said we had 75 bank examiners in a motel in West Memphis, Arkansas, and they were getting ready to descend upon the bank the next week to take it over and put it into conservatorship. Wow.
Matthew Troutman (20:41):
So you came in at the last minute and I thought,
Hall McAdams (20:44):
Boy, how lucky are we? Right.
Matthew Troutman (20:48):
So this experience of really saving, saving the bank in little rock led to a few other opportunities. I know we've discussed before some of the work you've done at, at a board level, both both at TJ and at university of Arkansas. I wonder if you could share a little bit about that and that experience even even briefly,
Hall McAdams (21:11):
Well, I, I was on the I was asked to be on the board at TJ, the early, very early eighties. And I think I was on the board for 10 years. I know Dan a little, that's where I really got to know Dan, because Dan graduated from about all, all of you listening, Dan level, graduated from TJ. And I believe it's 1961. Yeah. Okay. As you and I have talked about it, I think in the seventies, that was a tough time for all educational facilities, even public, publicly funded institutions were financially and very dicey situations because of the demographics of the, of the baby boomers, you know, suddenly they had all of this capacity that had been built up over the previous, probably two decades and suddenly it evaporated and TJ felt that even more, or the course. So there had been financial problems. TJ came through it and kind of, they were on the upswing by the time Dan and I got on the board, I would say,
Matthew Troutman (22:32):
Well, it was just kind of curious about how that was. So you had a lot of experience as a student at TJ, and then coming back at as a board member, I'm sure it's a very different focus. You're, you're thinking about different things. What are, what are some of the things that stood out during that time?
Hall McAdams (22:53):
It primarily, I would say that it dealt with financial stability. They did, I think probably were on the board. They I think that's when TJ did exp did start, it became co-ed during that period, I believe. And also they began accepting de students, which interestingly had never been allowed, even, even if a student was from St. Louis, they had to be a full-time boarder. So all of those were I think, good changes.
Matthew Troutman (23:32):
Well, I think you would have been around when they added a middle school. I think that that would have happened around that time.
Hall McAdams (23:39):
No, again, that's probably correct. Yeah. Yeah, definitely some major
Matthew Troutman (23:46):
Changes, but it sounds like the main focus was on financial stability and just kind of coming out of that, that time in the seventies, where as you said, everybody was, was really, really trying to make the best of education.
Hall McAdams (24:00):
So, so those were significant changes as far as the students or concern. But as I say to me, the important thing was that TJ maintained its, as I say, its etiology of the wa it's pedagogical techniques, it maintained those, which I think was the two to come through those trying periods in the seventies. And these changes in the student makeup and be able to retain and hold onto those ideological principles, I think was, I don't know if it was astounding, but it was certainly good.
Matthew Troutman (24:44):
And it feels like that that has continued to today. We still have the vision of strong academics, right. And community culture and this, this idea of learning for the love of learning and trying to really instill in our students that, that appreciation for curiosity, for, for learning how to learn those still hold true today. And that's pretty, I think it's, it's special.
Hall McAdams (25:15):
Yeah. I do. I do too. I think, you know, kind of harking back to my entry into TJ and the differences. And so there, there were there obvious differences, but they're also very rare and that is, you know, the, the fact that number one, you were given a quiz in every course every day. And so if you were slacking off, it didn't take the faculty two months to figure that out. Right. They knew it by the end of the week.
Matthew Troutman (25:53):
Yeah, no. And you know, on Tuesday, how things are going.
Hall McAdams (25:56):
Yeah. And, and, and some, you know, I'm, I'm sure there are those that would criticize that. I don't, I think it's again, to use a sports analogy or an old BF Skinner, debit Tate, his precepts constant reinforcement is the way to go. Right. Right. I mean, again, sports analogy, you certainly wouldn't run a sports team by just having the coach come out once every month or two, then look at some film footage of the game and say, Oh, well, Matt you know, you really should have run to the left instead of the right here. Well, you know, you need constant and that's, what's, that's what changes behavior is. Yeah. And so, so that was a huge change daily quizzes. Plus the fact probably more importantly is that, I don't know if it's still this way you, again, you've probably told me and I forgotten because I presume it's the case. And that is the classes was already five minutes. Yes. So we wouldn't have these lengthy class periods and none of them were lecture classes.
Matthew Troutman (27:08):
Right. That, that is certainly true today that they, the energy in the classroom student voice is really important as, as we're recording this, this is during COVID. And so our class times have adjusted slightly, but yes, we held true to that 35 minutes up until this year when we needed to make some adjustments. But yeah, that, that class energy, the class participation extremely important there's I don't think students have the, the if, if we were to try and do a lecture style class, the students might, might revolt. They expect to be a part of the conversation.
Hall McAdams (27:46):
And so as a result, you know, you didn't, if you're studying the Shakespeare, you don't you don't have dolls Potter tell you, give you a lecture on what Iagos soliloquy made. He would, he would ask you, so what, you know, mad, what do you think of this? Right. And then it asks them. And, and so, and, and there were times, there were times when we all was like, darn, I wish he'd just give us an answer. You know, that never happened. Right. That never had,
Matthew Troutman (28:22):
Oh, I, I frustrate my students when I was teaching all the time, but they said, I hate, I hate going to you for help because you never answered the question.
Hall McAdams (28:31):
Precisely it's look, what do you think? You know you know, you've read it and if you have it, you need to reread it, you know?
Matthew Troutman (28:41):
And, and we know it's frustrating, but, but that's how you learn.
Hall McAdams (28:45):
So you had short classes, they were not lectures. They were basically guided discussions, right? That's, that's all, that's what the professor did. Yeah. It was a guided discussion. And so as a result of the short class period, we were, we were finished with classes by lunch, and then the rest of the day was studying on your own. And again, they didn't have someone come around and say, okay, you ring a bell and say, okay, now go from geometry over to fridge. You know, that you are completely left on your own, which jammer
Matthew Troutman (29:26):
It. It's very similar to what we do. Now. There's a little bit more structure, particularly with middle school students. As they're still learning how to navigate that. But we, we definitely hold true that we, we want to develop students' ability to kind of guide their own time and really work on their, on what they think is necessary. What they think is needed advisors help navigate that process a little bit. But ultimately when we have seniors who are ready to go off to college, they're, they're deciding what to do with their afternoons entirely. And, and that gets them ready for college and for life
Hall McAdams (30:05):
As always, I would always qualify that in the same, there are certain endeavors, or you probably don't want to do that. Medical school probably don't want tell the students, here's a scalpel. Here's some anesthesia take out this guy's appendix in whatever way you think would work. I don't think, you know, you get my drift, but, but by and large, that is a good tactic.
Matthew Troutman (30:35):
If I could, I want to switch over to ask some, some rapid fire questions. Do you have a favorite TJ meal or a TJ dish that you remember?
Hall McAdams (30:45):
You know, it's, I thought of that because I did not, but there was the chef, she ran the kitchen and I don't know that I did it consciously, but I did it regularly. And that is, I got to know who ran the kitchen because Vera would give me extra cookies and, you know, and so on. So that's what I remember is Vera was a buddy of mine and she took care of me.
Matthew Troutman (31:18):
We've we've mentioned a few, or you've mentioned a few teachers. I'm kind of wondering if, if anybody else stands out, if there's a memorable teacher to you when you were,
Hall McAdams (31:28):
I mentioned Terry Stewart earlier he, he taught well, he taught me French in a tutorial manner for, I guess it may have been for all three years. I was there plus he was my advisor. Plus he lived in the blue house, which is where I lived initially. So he was the next door neighbor and Terry and I well, once I got to the point where I, I could call him Terry well after school he, he became a personal friend. He came down to visit in Arkansas and, and we used to talk regularly. So-So Terry Stewart was a special guy. I really liked Terry. And he, he, he helped me a lot. As far as other teachers Larry Morgan, I thought it was a supper teacher. I, I remember him his teaching of American history.
Matthew Troutman (32:36):
And we've mentioned your, your roommate Kramer, Darrow. Is there any other student or other staff member person at TJ who made an impact when you look back now?
Hall McAdams (32:49):
Well, there were many that held in well in high regard for their academic and other abilities. You know, Ray Solomon comes to mind as we've mentioned, he, he was one of three boys from Helena, Arkansas who all attended TGV, you know, other than Kramer, who's a best friend, you know, well, bill Rowe, of course they'll roll. And his roommate, Charlie, something, Charles Charlie names. And they were our next door neighbors and the blue edge. And they all, and I got to be, I, I just think the world would be,
Matthew Troutman (33:39):
I'll always be in debt to him because he was the one who, who hired me to come on to be a teacher at TJ.
Hall McAdams (33:46):
Well, you, you, you could not have found a better Emissary before TJ in Google.
Matthew Troutman (33:54):
Absolutely. This might be a strange question. It sounds it sounds like things were a little bit quiet at TJ, but is there anybody you'd like to apologize to now?
Hall McAdams (34:04):
Well, I, you know, I not really I'm sure there are several who think I probably should owe them an apology, perhaps. I don't know, but I can't think of any, I kept thinking, well, maybe, maybe I need to apologize. I can't, you know.
Matthew Troutman (34:24):
Okay. Well, it sounds like if you were the connector to the kitchen there you were, you were kind of on the good side of most people, probably fair. How about is there a favorite book you have from the TJ curriculum?
Hall McAdams (34:39):
Well, now that I can tell you is and it was, it was a thorough Walden and that had you know, much to do with how my, where I was in life at that time, my age, but I was just completely taken with the inner David's world. Right. Do you remember that
Matthew Troutman (35:06):
Still a, a book that I think currently is in the senior English curriculum it's kind of part of that identity theme that we, we look at at the senior year. How about is there anything you've read recently that really sticks, stands out or,
Hall McAdams (35:23):
Well, you know, that's, that's another, I, I do read a good bit. I usually have my standard over the years that I typically have three, three books running. I did I am in the middle of reading one that is a wonderful series of books that were covered. They were considered biographies of cities what you didn't want on Venice, and while I'm wrong that I always enjoyed. And this book that I have I'm in the middle of now is it's kind of the biography. You might say of one of my Arkansas towns that used to spend some time in of hot Springs, Arkansas. And it's called the vapors, the hot Springs during the first part of the 20th century.
Matthew Troutman (36:18):
Well, I've, I've made a note of it to, to put on the list for the local library, trying to one, one final question. How do you currently live the mission of TJ, which is to lift up the world with beauty and intellect?
Hall McAdams (36:34):
I put primacy on individual Liberty when people are free, then they only, then only then can they even aspire to the T to the question you're talking about to being able to answer that once freedom. And that's why I say I hate to get off on politics. I'm not going to get off on politics, political philosophy, being an old libertarian as I am. But once, once Liberty innovative individual Liberty is compromised, then nothing good comes of it society devolves at that point. So what have I done personally, back my career in banking and business, that's what you do. You try to build something and you employ people and hopefully provide a service that makes someone's life better, because if you don't, it's kind of back to output it's. Now, if you don't you're out of business, you know, I haven't, I'm not going to get a Nobel peace prize from anything that I know of, but I think each of us does that by trying to promote certain values.
Matthew Troutman (37:59):
I wouldn't sell yourself short there. I think you know, you, you mentioned trying to, to run a business that I'm sure it had an impact on dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of, of lives, you know, lift up the world. Even if it's in the local community, that's the way the world is made up of any local communities. Right. And
Hall McAdams (38:21):
Well, and, and, and a little story, and to kind of
Matthew Troutman (38:26):
First off, I wanted to thank you for the time you've taken this afternoon. And thank you for being a part of, of this, this interview and this conversation series.
Hall McAdams (38:36):
Well, thank you. I've enjoyed it.
Matthew Troutman (38:39):
If you'd like more information about TJ, please go to TJ s.org, or you can find us on social media. Look for Thomas Jefferson school on Facebook or TJ underscore S T L on Instagram. If you want to help by contributing to TJ to help support us in delivering our mission or to bring more conversations like this one, go to T J s.org/giving. If you know, an alumna or alumnus who would be interested in participating in this conversation series, or know somebody who should be, please reach out to me@mtroutmanattjs.org.
Hall McAdams (39:18):
You know, as, as all of us experience, when you, when you're here, when you hear yourself in a recording, just it's disappointing. It's like, Oh, gee,